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The Problem with Groups

Journal Entry: Tue Jun 17, 2008, 8:31 AM


Moonbeam13's Journal


Let me preface this with the statement that I love the idea of groups and I've not only been a member of groups on dA, I have and continue to support many of them. My issue with groups within deviantART is that we do not currently have the correct technological support and that is being addressed in the near future with the groups project. However, until then there are very significant courtesy issues that need to be addressed.


Since dinosaurs roamed the earth (ok really the beginning of dA as I know it) groups have functioned about the same. People join groups and allow the duplicate uploading of their work into 'group accounts'. The descriptions on the group uploaded deviation usually contains a lot of BOLD CAPS ABOUT NOT FAVING THIS PLEASE FAVE THE ORIGINAL and a link. Fair enough, it was a work around to suit the needs of 'groups' when no viable alternative options were available. However, like everything manual, error occurs and people will fave the group uploaded image anyways. Should you be one of these poor suckers, you've probably received a relatively terse note stating that you faved the wrong image and asking you (hopefully nicely) to fave the original.

Again I get it, protecting the artist and getting the artist the credit they deserve however, folks the times have changed.

Now that we have collections I can collect while I'm browsing and I'm not going to see descriptions or be able to identify what is contained in a 'group account' or not. Adding to that, once i've collected work I intend to show off, because I too want to give artists' attention, I probably notice I've made a gafaw and unfave the group image and fave the original. However, I generally have received my terse note by now and to be quite frank, some of them are downright rude.

I know I'm not the only one that goes through this because it's happened to my mom and if you take a new deviant like her who is active and loves to feature artists in her journal, then throw in a rude 'HOW DARE YOU FAVE THE GROUP IMAGE' note.. well that's really frustrating and doesn't exactly scream 'WELCOME TO THE AWESOME DA COMMUNITY' now does it?


What I don't understand is why groups don't apply collections to what they're doing. Instead of uploading a duplicate why not collect the images of your members? It's less work and it's a direct link to the original and no more faving the wrong image..

Sometimes we need to think outside of the box. Groups have to understand that it was never a good set up in the first place and I commend them for finding a way to make it work but as technology on the site changes and new things are brought in, we all need to examine ways to improve upon things we're currently doing and I think while we're working on group functionality, collections should be your new best friend.

I will say that not all of the 'you faved the wrong thing' notes are mean. However, they are a slap in the face for striving to do the same thing groups are setting out to do - respecting and showcasing the artist.

We need to be a little more respectful of each other in general, there are people on the other end of the screen.

:love:

:iconarteam001-plz::iconarteam002-plz::iconarteam003-plz:

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:iconhellfirediva:
The collection thing sounds like a good idea and if a group still wants to show of their members work to get them more exposure, then maybe they could do it with a journal feature instead of the gallery upload. Group watchers get the journals in their inbox as well so they can check those featured pictures instead of having them come to their devwatch inbox.

--

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:iconazarath:
Well, the reason I like uploading works to my club is so that they turn up in people's watch lists. More chance of people seeing it that way, I think.

And yes, while we disable comments and encourage comments and faves on the original, NEVER have I ever sent a nasty note to anyone who's done that! And I've been running my club since 2003. That's ridiculous that anyone would do that, so rude... :threaten:

--
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:iconlimnides:
This reminds me of the time I got my own note, belittling my inability to +fav the correct image... when what actually happened was a glitch with Firefox and some add-on that auto-+fav'd(and sometimes auto-+watch'd) accounts.

I had no idea it happened and immediately took steps to remove it after I was told. I remember writing them back, too... apologising and explaining what happened, and I remember receiving another curt response. :\
:iconoilsoaked:
I always really liked what *ThePencilClub did. Without actually putting up the deviations again, they would instead make a journal each day, with ten thumbs of pencil drawings. Direct link to piece, problem solved. :lol:


Collections is a fantastic way of going about things, as well. :)

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oilsoaked@volunteers.deviantart.com


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:icongeneratinghype:
*WordCount has done this with its features, and it's the best thing to happen to the project in a long while. Now we can separate our "favorites" by the word count instead of linking off-site, and we can collect works guilt-free. I'm a huge supporter.

The only trouble I see in this versus a group account is that the favorites on the main display page show up randomly (or last-faved) in a 2-box capability versus a 4-box capability (which galleries allow), and the fav display doesn't permit you the dA category ahead of time like the gallery display does, which, for literature, would be very useful. I know the technology is not there yet and I, too, commend group accounts trying to work with what they have, but I think a little customization/personalization on the main account pages could really help cut down on most of these issues in the future.

That said, having been on the receiving end of one of those notes (and for similar reasons), I feel exactly where you're coming from.

--
Suggest a Lit DD today!
:icongeneratinghype:
Oh, and the fact that uploaded deviations show up in the devwatch box--that is a nifty thing for clubs, too, in regards to exposure.

--
Suggest a Lit DD today!
:iconxerces:
indeed, it is a good idea to use the collections and such, but i think the clubs are more wanting the images to be put into your devwatch as normal, since everyone is human and once in a while ignores a journal entry, which in this case would mean all of the features are ignored. of course, people still do that with their devwatch, but i think there is the philosophy that if it is uploaded again, there will be new people seeing it that didn't see the original- just with the downfall of the pic being able to have faves.
I am an admin in a couple of clubs, and it is very annoying to see people fave the images int he gallery, but it is inevitable. My anger is quickly cooled by the fact that at some point, the deviant will lose the image from their faves when the copy in the gallery is eventually deleted by the club staff after however long.
As for the notes, there is a certain way these things should be worded so not to upset the recipient- be they noob or novice on dA. they should ask- not demand, and possibly remind people that it is in their best interests to fave the original image because it may be deleted at some point.
sometimes club names aren't obvious to people faving, since with the new collections system, you can fave the image without reading the artists comments where it tells you not to fave.
unfortunately, people will have to accept that everyone makes mistakes and faves something from a club. we're all human.

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:iconblueflamedphoenix:
But collections don't notify the group member of new deviations. That's the only problem.

--
"Commandment Number One of any truly civilized society is this: Let people be different." –David Grayson
:iconhellmet:
Do you read all the journals? Groups are based on watchers, not on journals. With st. around 1000+ members in group you get very poor feedback on journals...
I agree with $Moonbeam13 ,but most of the group "admins" are kind and polite..
In my opinion groups needs to be separeted from
"normal" accounts..
Point of groups is to help unseen poeple at the first place, not to make problems or drama...

--
Liber ars
:iconleaf-lover:
I think using the collections idea would be much better.

Also, :highfive: on the respect thing, it'd make life so much easier (not to mention brighter) if manners were employed more often

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Senior Message Network (MN@) Admin
deviantART, Inc

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